Mackenzie Heflin: Your story is the strategy: Building a business that feels like home // #37

In this episode, we're diving into how to use your story to build a magnetic business with Mackenzie Heflin!

Mackenzie Heflin is a storyteller at heart who supports creatives, entrepreneurs, and online business owners in turning their lived experiences into powerful content that builds true connection and community. She teaches how to use your story to grow with purpose and sell in a way that feels completely authentic. At the core of her work is a deep belief: your voice matters, and your story is meant to be shared.

What you'll learn:

• What originally led Mackenzie to her business, even though it wasn’t the path she planned to take.
• How she navigated the loss of her first business and the moment that sparked a new direction.
• The shift she made to align her work with life as a new mom.
• Her content frameworks that build trust, community, and connection without compromising your authenticity.
• Simple ways to position yourself as an authority while still feeling like you.
• Her wisdom on how to write when you don’t know or have a niche / target audience (and how her first viral TikTok came from this exact space).
• How to turn your big, transformational stories into smaller, meaningful pieces that compound and reflect your leadership, expertise, and magic.
• The storytelling tools and methods she uses that you can start playing with today!
• How her “3 layers deep” approach helps your audience truly connect with who you are, building trust, community, and resonance.

This is a rich and inspiring listen for anyone ready to share their story more boldly and build a business that’s rooted in truth, authenticity, and connection! :)

Connect with Mackenzie:

• Explore ways to work with her genius
• Hang out with her on Threads, TikTok, and Instagram

Disclaimer:
This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult with your doctor, therapist, or financial advisor for medical, mental health, or financial advice.

Transcript

Ashley Mondor: Oh my God. Okay, here's the thing. Mackenzie Heflin, welcome. Let me tell you what, okay. This woman, I found her on Threads, which is really exciting. I didn't know Threads existed until like last year. I think maybe that's when it launched. I don't know. But it felt so good to my nervous system because they were very few pictures and it was mainly written word.

And if you know me, you know that I fucking love writing. Okay? So I came across Mackenzie, and then I just started inhaling her content because I have never met someone who can share storytelling in such an authentic, magnetic, simple, clear way. She is such a master in her craft, in what she teaches.

So to give you a little snippet, she does storytelling marketing that helps you grow your business and monetize your community through authentic stories. She's supported over 3000 students, one of them being me. Okay? Because I was like, listen, I need it. Oh, also, I have to tell you, [00:01:00] you already know this, Mackenzie, 'cause I told you this, but, her and I worked together one-on-one in December.

That's my favorite way to work with people when I catch a vibe, right? But she has a few offerings that you can pick and choose from, which she'll tell you more about later. But one of them I love so much, I accidentally bought twice and I was like, worth it. Which is fine, you know, but Mackenzie brings such a refreshing perspective and I, I have so many people in my network who are business owners who really struggle articulating what they do and sharing their mastery and their genius.

And I was like, Mackenzie, please God, come on to this podcast so we can talk. So Mackenzie, how are you? Where are you in the world? And how did you get into this business? 

Mackenzie Heflin: Yay. I'm so excited. I'm doing amazing. Let's get into it. I live in Southern California.

Gosh, business 

wise, I don't know. I feel like I've lived a lot of lives. I'm 27. I was gonna say 28, [00:02:00] 27. I got into social media at 18. I started very, very early and I was like, I want to do this. It was in 2016, like right on the rise of influencers and YouTube and , I think it was like Vine back then when people could blow up accounts and have crazy amount of followers and like, it just felt so fun.

I was actually going to school to be a nurse though, and on that nursing school journey, graduated college with my then boyfriend, community college and then we had to go finish our degree. I got waitlisted because I'm in California. Uh, every single college I applied to, if you don't know, nursing school is extremely hard to get into.

They accept about 30 students per college per year, so. It just like everyone was like, if you wanna be a nurse, you have to go outta state, but then you're paying outstate tuition. It just did not, [00:03:00] it, it couldn't be done or I didn't wanna sacrifice it. Right. So the one college I got waitlisted at, my then boyfriend ended up getting into, so I was like, let's just leave our hometown.

Let's go up there. Um, we spent another two years, he was graduating college. I, again, didn't get into nursing school, but I was working in a nursing home with my old people and then Covid happened and I was like, I need a way out. I wanna go full on, I wanna turn this social media thing into a business because at that point I had been, you know, writing content.

My mom had been in the MLM world. Gosh, she was doing, I don't know if you've ever heard of Party Light or Pampered Chef, but she was doing that when we were like four years old. I mean, just always doing these things that, like, business wise, my grandparents own a construction company for [00:04:00] 30 years.

So it's always just, I think, been in my blood. So I was kind of like, I wanna start a business. I don't know how to launch a business. So back then, gosh, Instagram in 2019 was very much like business coach takes over the world type vibes, you know, very, very masculine energy.

But I was kind of like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I kinda like that. Like, let me get into it a little bit. I invested into six months of learning with a coach. I ended up doing incredible, I launched my own business in a private Facebook group. The Facebook group had 98 people and I was making $5,000 a month right off the bat.

It was crazy. And I was like, I have no idea. Low key, what am I doing right? I was helping people write content. I was helping people write content from the heart. Like that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to take people's stories, write content so they could go sell their own products.

'cause I've been [00:05:00] in the business world for so freaking long, social media, um, and I did that. I quit my job six months in, business, was incredible. Got married and then I got pregnant and then slowly my client started to die off. I was like, I can't do this. I was super sick for like six months of my pregnancy and had migraines every single day and I couldn't be on social media.

And after I had my daughter, I tried to come back into that space. Oh my gosh. And then all within all of this, right? Like I'm at the highest in my business ever. I'm setting myself up months to come after she's born. And then my Facebook group that I was selling in 450 people, uh, gets hacked and shut down.

And I lose my entire business overnight in 2021. When [00:06:00] TikTok was there, but no one was really on it. I mean, heck, I didn't even get onto TikTok till September of 2022, so still a year-and-a-half later. And people were mostly on Instagram. I hated Instagram at the time. it just felt weird.

So I was like, Facebook feels the best like this. These are my people, this is my community. It gets hacked, it gets deleted, it gets shut down. I have an email list of a hundred people and that's it. So I was like, you know, this is my time. I gotta take a break. Let me just go on maternity leave.

I'm fine, everything's fine. But when I came back, I could not physically get myself to that place of running a business on Instagram and it just feeling so forced. Like in my Facebook group, I could show up, no makeup, my hair's not done. I'm in a pajama T-shirt, you know, and I'm still showing up and I'm going live 'cause those are my people.

And I just couldn't figure out how to do that on [00:07:00] Instagram. I was like, where are my people? And it felt like I was constantly an outcast, like in a world of super masculine coaches making a hundred K a month and I just wanted in my place. Fast forward a year-and-a-half, I got on TikTok and I was at the lowest of my business because I had been trying, I just invested over $13,000, didn't make a single penny.

Because I was just so, like, I can't do this. I need to find something that works for me. Was at the lowest point of my business. Got onto TikTok and had a viral video. And honestly that video changed my life because I gained 10,000 followers in two weeks. My very first client was a professional photographer for Ariana Grande and Rihanna, and she's incredible.

And I was like, somebody believes in me again. And that was [00:08:00] two years ago now. So business has just continued to evolve because I have, I think, stuck so close to who I am, but it took a very long time to find myself again. I think after that. And that is very long-winded story about how I've got here.

But I've been doing this for like 10 years now almost. And it's just. There's so much story I can tell you, and I think that's one of my favorite things about you is you, it was actually really enlightening for me. So kind of as a backstory, I obviously followed Mackenzie just because I liked the quality of her stories and I always felt something, or I learned something from her and I was like, I can't believe someone is giving this much value for free consistently and in a way that I felt connected with you.

Like I was like, she could be one of my really good friends. [00:09:00] So I worked with her one-on-one and one of the things that I brought to her, I was like I have worked with other messaging coaches and I love them, but there's something about you. But I have such a massive story that like in the transformations I help people walk through are so big that I can't encapsulate it in these bite-sized frameworks.

And she said something, she actually gave me permission to do something that I was really afraid of. And she was like, I think you need to start a podcast for your people. And I was like, oh, I should do that. And so I launched that on January 11th, 2025, called Insightful with Ashley Mondor, and it's the same way of you and your Facebook.

Now I have this place where it's my frequency and message, but I needed someone outside of me to just give me that like you can try. Just see. So thank you for that. And, um. I wanted to ask you , what are some of the wins and the things you're celebrating right [00:10:00] now? 'cause I know you've been in business for, you know, or doing this for 10 years, but I watch you share about your membership and your community and the things, your one-on-ones and everything like that.

So just 'cause I want to have people hear what's possible for them as they share authentically through stories and stuff, you know, it's so hard for me to look back and be like, okay, what's actually happening in my life right now? Because, gosh, three years ago it was like, I was always pushing.

It was like, no, I just have to, it's the end of the month. I just have to get one more client. I just have to meet this sales goal. And, a lot of people will ask me what do celebrations or sales goals or wins look like for you? And I'm like I would have to go back and look you know, it's like, what day of the week is it?

What day of the month is it? Gosh, I just would have never [00:11:00] imagined that I had a Facebook group of 450 people and I maintained it for like a year. And like that to me, felt so good. And now my membership has brought in probably over 500 people and like 500 people have cycled through it.

I sometimes I have to sit with myself and I have to be like, holy shit. That is more people paying me than I've ever imagined, and I just have to sit with myself. I think, you know, I'm having, and I hate bragging about myself because a part of me is like, that's not what I do.

That's like, you know, and it's so hard, but you have to kind of sit back and that's a big piece of my storytelling framework as you know, it's like what is going on in your life that you wanna celebrate so that you can show your audience what's possible.

We're maintaining 300 sales [00:12:00] a month. I don't know, I just, like I said, sometimes I have to just sit with myself 'cause it doesn't feel real and I have to like, like kind of sit in it. 'cause it was just so hard. And I think now that it's finally feels good and feels easy, I'm like, okay, I need to be okay with this.

Like, I don't have to make it hard again, I don't, I just have to keep doing what I'm doing and enjoy my life. Like go live my life on the outside of the business world, you know? Yeah. Well, and that was one of the things that I loved about you is, I know that your business changed when you had your child because it had to, because you only had so much time.

And I have a lot of moms in my community with small children who are like, oh my God, I'm so tired. How am I supposed to do this? So I was hoping you could share a little bit about what does your day look like? Because you are so clear on what you bring to the world, [00:13:00] and you know how to attract people who are ready to buy from you.

And you know, really what you're doing is sharpening their skills and amplifying their work. I think I can say, you know, and people ask me this all the time, okay. Well, how have you been able to do it? And I can say, you know, I create really freaking good content. And it's not just content that says how to create really good content, right?

It's like actual valuable, very educational, like people see me as an expert because I am, I just am like, and I can say that it is mostly content, but I also feel like it has a lot to do with the product suite. I think in the beginning, especially when I had my daughter, I was only doing high ticket one-on-one, and that's all I had been taught.

It was high ticket, it was one-on-one, it was group programs. And I did that until she was about six months old. And I was like, God, I can't do this anymore. She's not taking [00:14:00] naps, she's not sleeping. She's screaming in my arms as I'm on a client call and I'm like, oh yeah, wait, what'd you say?

Like it's just, it was so overwhelming and I was like, I can't do this. And so, um, you know, I had to sacrifice because. There's a lot of things. It's, it's a different business model, right? If you have high ticket and you're charging $5,000 for a one-on-one, you can do that with a low amount of people that are coming into your feed, right?

That are coming into your, into your space. And I said, you know, but at that point I had been hiding kind of who I really wanted to be for a long time. And I was like, I wanna be on a stage somewhere with a crowd of 5,000 people behind me. Like, like looking at presentations and learning what I do. And like I wanna lead people.

And so I had to really step back and be like, how can I lead people in a way that will grow my business and [00:15:00] fulfill me and also not take away from time with my daughter? Right? And so that was low ticket. I created, it was like November, 2022, I think I created, uh $20 ebook, I think. And on TikTok, at the time, I had a thousand followers, but I remember I had 998 followers.

Um, the next day I hit a thousand and I was like, cool. I get a link in bio, I posted my link in bio, I posted a video, I made a sale on that product immediately. And I was like, holy shit. Like this could work. I worked so freaking hard for that link in bio, right? And I was like, this is proof that I could do it again.

It was 20 freaking bucks. So back then, it's not a $5,000 client, but I didn't have to do anything. The sale was done. There's no attachment. I, I think a, a really big thing for me too is I get so emotionally attached to my clients and their results [00:16:00] and I'm checking in constantly and I'm like, Hey, anything new, like, what's going on?

Where's your head up? Blah, blah, blah. And I think a lot of that really messed me up 'cause I couldn't be that person that I wanted to be when I had a newborn and I was trying to be that person still. I mean, any mom will really resonate the fact that your clients are no longer your first priority, like it is now your child that you have to raise.

And if you know, if you're gonna be a stay at home mom, it's gonna look even different because now they're three and now they might not be napping now. You know, the two hours you had to grow your business in the afternoon. Now that's gone, right? Like, how are we still growing a business where we don't have to show up in.

Uh, places, like one-on-one or being in a Voxer space every single day. And I think low ticket really gave that to me and my membership. I wanted a membership so bad because I [00:17:00] wanted that reoccurring revenue, but I had been trying to force it for so long. 'cause I was like, I just want recurring revenue.

I want that money. Right. And, I think 2021, I'm trying to remember when, how little she was. I launched a membership for 97 bucks a month and it got four people in in the three months. And then I closed it because I was like, this is stupid. Like, what am I doing here? And you know, people were telling me, oh my God, girl, launch a membership.

You could do it. And I'm like, I don't wanna do it for the wrong reasons this time. So I think when I finally launched it, and funny enough, I was sitting with my husband at the kitchen table and when I was building out the sales page and I said, I think I'm gonna watch a membership 30 bucks a month.

And he said, eh, $15. I said, okay. And so my membership's $14.99, which [00:18:00] coming from someone in the online space who charged $6,500 right. To work with me like that is unheard of to launch a $15 membership. And I was like, no, I have to do it because I'm in it in such a good head space. I know I can help so many people.

And now again, like I said, we've had over 500 people come in. So as a mom I can sit here and say yeah, it's the content. Yeah. Like you have to have visibility and you have to have all these things and like nurture, but like you have to have product suite that allows you to do those things. 'cause if you don't have that in the backend, you can create all the content.

But what are we doing here? You know, are you actually building it to create the next couple of years of your life? Or not, that was very long-winded, but yeah. Can you, it's, I think this is perfect. I'm wondering, can you tell people about what you [00:19:00] do in your membership, because it's really cool and, you deliver so much value.

And one of the things also side note that I love about you, and you teach this on Threads for free and other platforms, but you know, I jam with you on Threads, is you know that there are, I think, two types of buyers, right? Hmm. Emotional and driven. And that's why I was like, I need you to talk about some of your results things because you showcase it on Threads because of how that specific psychology works versus emotional.

But all of that aside, I just wanted to drop that there 'cause her content is damn good. Um, tell me about your membership and how you help people there. Yeah, so it's a really funny story for how it kind of came to life. 'cause like I said, I had been wanting to do a membership for a really long time, but again, I couldn't be in the membership 24 7.

That was something I could not do. Um, 'cause last time I did have a membership, I was in there every single day, hours answering questions. I was like, I don't wanna be that person. I can't be that person. [00:20:00] So I created TikTok. I said, let me help you batch your content for the week. And I gave two prompts. I. Based on trust building content.

So you could connect with your audience and two prompts that were authority based so you could connect with your audience and grow your authority that way. And in the comment section, people were like, I'd pay for these. I want four prompts a week. And I said, that's my membership. That's literally my membership.

And it just, I was in the shower and I was washing my hair. I was like, oh my God, I just got it like email based. It's just emails. I'm sending them four prompts a week. But here's the thing, because I'm not gonna beat around the bush. You cannot just create content. You also have to have to have a business.

You have to lay the foundations of a business if you wanna do this for years to come. I've been doing this full-time for five years. You have to have foundational shit in your business, right? And so in my membership, I give you an entire lesson of the week [00:21:00] I teach you how to bridge your content so you make sure that even your connection based content is growing your authority.

So people see you as a leader. And I talk about calls to action and I talk about, you know, your brand story and how to break up those big transformations into little pieces of content. So every week has a lesson and then you have your four prompts. And it is so simple. I send it out in an email and it's like, I can't believe I created that.

Like I had never seen anything like that done before in my space. Now there are a bunch of people who do it. I just think I love it. You know, it's the best. I love that. And one of the things that I admire about you is , it feels so refreshing because you make it simple. You know? You're like, this is what you do, this is how you say it.

And one of the things I remember coming to you for, because again, I had worked with messaging coaches and it's no shade to them. I love them all for their very specific reasons. But I remember [00:22:00] coming to you and filling out your one-on-one form, and I was like, Mackenzie, I cannot lose my voice again. I cannot sound like anyone else.

And I have worked with frameworks where I completely lost myself and people bought, and they worked with me, but it wasn't in full alignment. So what would you tell people for your hooks and your prompts and these things about how they don't have to lose their voice and how they can stay authentic.

You know? I think that's something, I also struggled with a lot. Especially trying to fit my mold into Instagram. I lost my voice for a very, very long time, and I talk about that, you know, here and there is when I was trying to make things work and I couldn't, and I was forcing just what I thought people wanted to hear.

And, um, you know, being liked, but not being seen as a leader and [00:23:00] being seen as someone people connected with. But oh, I would never buy from you. Right. It, it's just very much like, and I lost my voice trying to be that person. And so. The reason I started the prompts and the hooks, and I know a lot of people, I mean, I think even you said I am terrified to put my voice into a framework or a hook or a prompt because I don't want that to not be me anymore.

And I think that is so prevalent in our industry, right? Like throw up a hook. I think a lot of what I teach is what is the purpose of this? Because I'm not throwing a hook at you so you can just plug in some information and make a post, right? Are you building a deeper connection with your audience today?

Are you sharing a piece of your story that you feel like really needs a place on your feed? Are you sharing this because it's a story that just has to get out there? You don't [00:24:00] care if anyone sees it. Is this a story that's gonna help build your business and make you sales today? Like there's purpose behind every single piece of content I create.

There's intention, and I think a lot of people like to just, you know, uh, shit on hooks and prompts because it's something that's supposed to be eye catching and, scroll stopping, like negative hooks, right? Like, you suck at this, and that's just not who I am. You know, I don't do any pain point marketing. I'm not gonna call people out. I don't wanna make people feel shame or embarrassed or anxiety or anything when they come to my page. And I think people don't feel that because of the, you know, hooks and the prompts and, um, I follow my own damn prompts every single week, right?

But again, it's like purpose, you know? For example, one of the prompts that I share a lot, and this is just my brain, but one of the prompts that I talk about is talk about a mistake that [00:25:00] you've made, right? One of the biggest mistakes I've made is blah, blah, blah. And I know that that prompt is gonna build connection with my audience, but if I just wrote out one of the biggest mistakes I made, blah, blah, blah, it doesn't feel like me.

Put some personality into it, right? And so yesterday I made a post and the hook was, I know for a fact. A hundred percent. One of the biggest mind fucks that I ever had with content creation. Right. So it's still has basis in what I'm trying to say, but spice it up a little bit.

Like add your personality into it, right? Because when you're on social media, go back to something. Because if you are creating, and this is my biggest thing as a mom, writing with intention, I don't have all the time in the world to spend on social media scrolling or creating content. I used to have eight hours a day to create content.

And now it's when I'm doing dinner, like I'm making dinner at the stove, writing a piece of content, right? [00:26:00] And it's like I need to be able to go back to a place where I can write, I can still sound like myself. I can give value, I can educate, I can be the person I know my audience needs me to be. And I can still make money, and I can still grow my business and I can still put food on the table and I can still be the breadwinner in my family.

And I think that's, it's not that people are afraid of that, but I think people are afraid of strategy that's supposed to feel good. 'cause strategy always is supposed to put you in a box, but like, you, like you have so many stories. It's not meant to put you in a box. It's meant to give you, what was that?

Um, not a framework, but I was talking to you about. On our call when you were like, I'm afraid to put my story in a framework. And I was like, think of music. When you're writing a song, you have verse one, verse two. You have a chorus, you have a bridge, and then you have the ending, whatever you [00:27:00] call that of a song, right?

I'm not trying to stick you in a box and say, these are the lyrics you have to use in your song. It's, this is how you write a song. Go throw your lyrics into it. Figure out the format because you are in control. And you are the only one that gets to be better. Mm-hmm. And that's something I say too. The only way you be better is by doing. Just write, write every single day for literally.

No other reason, but to get better at it. Mm-hmm. That was actually, as you know, 'cause I was in your, she had a class where she helped people with her framework and then she helped people actually in the moment write and stuff. And people like me, I was just watching and taking notes, but people were so afraid to say anything or to do anything outside of what they know.

And she was like, you just gotta try. You won't know until you try. And I was [00:28:00] like, this is such a breath of fresh air because you know, like we, we hold our words so sacred in our story so close to us, but you're like, how will you know unless you just shake it up a little. At the end of the day, that's really it.

I mean, and I know you feel this way with writing stories on Instagram, but like where I, that's this is a question for you. Where do you write your stories? Where do you write? Do you write directly in Instagram or are you writing somewhere else? I'd be curious. Yeah, actually I do it in Threads and then what I, I, it's like, um.

It's a methodology I do for myself, but I notice that it feels more intimate on Threads because I can be fully expressed because I started on Instagram, but Instagram feels so formulaic and boring. So I write in Threads and then I take that message and then I refine it on different platforms. I don't know if you ever do this, but when I write a message and I publish it, I'm like, oh, I could say this a little bit differently here and then I can try it here.

[00:29:00] And I've had people be like, you sound a little bit different on these platforms. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck. I'm just playing. You know? But I feel like, I think one of the things that I love about you is you have said multiple times in your content that you write to like basically intimacy you write to your face private Facebook group.

And so I'm, I'm wondering because I understand that concept, but how can you tell people about how you write in that mentality? Yeah. So. People, especially if they haven't been in a private Facebook group, they kind of wouldn't understand. Right. And so how I kind of explain it is say you have an understanding about groups obviously, right?

So if there's a group about coffee lovers. Or copycat Starbucks recipes, right? People can join in to this group to get these copycat Starbucks recipes. You're gonna be getting people in this group that are at all different levels [00:30:00] of awareness, I would say, when it comes to what they need support with.

There are gonna be people that go to Starbucks every single day and they're like, I need to save money. There are gonna be people that come to Starbucks once a month, that's their treat, but they wanna start making that treat at home because they wanna share it with their partner. There's gonna be people that come in that make coffee every day at home.

They just got a new espresso machine. They wanna learn how to make better coffee, right? There's gonna be people that don't make coffee at all, and they just want to learn some fancy coffees for like a weekend. There are so many different people coming into this group that have so many different levels of awareness, and I think when I was creating content, it was like, okay.

Who am I talking to today? Who am I, you know, bringing up who am I gonna give this call to action to? It was so overwhelming and it a hundred percent [00:31:00] led me to overthink everything I would ever say. 'cause I was like, how can I fit every single person that I'm ever trying to talk to into this one piece of content, to make sure everyone feels seen and then have a call to action that's four paragraphs long to make sure everyone, right?

And so when in my mind I'm like, I'm gonna write for my private Facebook group. They want me no matter what. They want the Starbucks. It's no big deal. They come in, they know they're going to get these copycat recipes. This is something they know. There's no force, there's no forceful call to action.

I rarely have a call to action on anything these days. 'cause you want my stuff, that's why you're watching my content. No big deal. Right? Like they know. They go in immediately. They see you as the person running this group. You're the authority. You are the one making all the posts. You are the expert in all of these recipes.

I'm gonna go to you if I have any questions. There's no doubt in my mind that you are not the [00:32:00] leader, because that's the person running the group. So in my mind, I'm creating my content. I am a leader. I am the leader of all of my people, and it's never a question to them. And when I take that pressure off myself, right?

I am not questioning myself in that circumstance. I am not being like, oh, well, are they gonna see me as a leader because I don't have the perfect call to action, or you don't have enough authority or results in this piece of content. And it just takes the pressure off babes. They see you as a leader.

They wanna buy from you. They know they're gonna buy from you. If they're in your group, they want your stuff. If they unfollow, they're done and it's no big deal. It's not any more complicated than that. And there's obviously other intricacies like that involve being in that mindset and that mind space.

But I think if we're gonna make content creation easier, let's make it so we're not having to say and [00:33:00] question the people that are in our space. You know, this is for you if you want this, I'm gonna educate you. I'm gonna give you value, I'm gonna expect you to buy because you're in.

And again, it's been, there's so many things that go into that, but I think it just really took the pressure off. And that came from me running my Facebook group back in 2019. And I think a lot of people resonated. I. With that. That was my very first viral video on TikTok, was me talking about how I treat my TikTok, like my private Facebook group.

And I had freaking 1600 followers and I was like, this is something that I do. And like I said, I gained 10,000 followers in two weeks before they were like, oh my gosh, I've never thought of it before. I'm not shouting into the void, right? If you don't get any comments or engagement, your people didn't see it.

No big deal. Create again tomorrow. It's not that big of a deal. Because I always say every piece of content is needed. If you put it out there, you posted [00:34:00] it, it was meant to be there in that space. That wasn't posted for no wrong reason. Now I've had instances where something has gone viral for the wrong reason and I just delete it because I'm like, no thanks.

I don't need that energy. But everything is needed. So your post today and your post from tomorrow and your post from last week, they're going to continue to compound on top of each other and give your audience a little bit of you in every single post. Let them know a story in every single post.

Just something again that asserts your leadership or asserts your expertise, gains trust with your audience, gets your audience to connect with you. And I think that's how it all comes together so beautifully. Oh, chef's kiss. Okay. Well, and I think what was really helpful for me in working with you is in my mind.

I have always been taught it's about the other person. What do they need to hear? What's in their mind? Yeah. And then I'm like, but I'm not a mind reader and I'm overwhelmed and I don't [00:35:00] know how to speak to that person, but you flipped it for me. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I can actually just chunk it down to a very tiny story of a small moment in time and trust that that's going to be a seed planted that will bloom when it's needed.

Exactly. So if someone were like, well, I don't have a niche, Mackenzie, what do I do? What would you share? Okay. So that's the thing, because a lot of people tell me that, and you are obviously on social media for a reason, right? What are you doing? What business do you wanna grow?

Because again, I'm, I'm very much like I don't have the time to write a shit ton of content. I would love to explore other business ideas and concepts and how can I turn this into a book and write a book, but for right now in my season of life, I have to know what I'm doing, right?

And so if somebody came into me and were like, I don't have a niche, I don't know what to do, you are the niche. I say your story is the niche. Because I was talking to a mom the other day [00:36:00] and she was like, I don't really have a niche. My niche is helping moms who are burnt out from having to take care of their toddlers at home and they wanna grow business.

And I was like, who told you that wasn't a niche? Because I think that's a niche. She's like, well, this person told me that that's not really what moms are saying to themselves before they go to bed that they need help with. I was like, they may not be saying that, laying down, oh my gosh, like I just wish I had a business and I'm a mom.

And I'm like, they're not saying that, but they're connecting to the stories that you tell based on your own life. So that's where. The script is flipped. Like you said, I don't talk at people, I talk to people through my stories. I want people to feel connected to me through my stories versus me having to talk at people to connect with their stories, right?

And so if you are niche-less, pick a [00:37:00] point in your life that you feel is Revent revelent, I love it. And tell it. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. You will figure it out as you go. Most people have no idea that when I first got onto TikTok, I named myself a small audience marketing expert.

Because I'd had a very small audience and I had made a shit ton of money, and I knew that it was through community and story building. And once I started on TikTok, a couple of videos started taking off about me, talking about how I built my brand story and how I did it through building my community and the content that I shared.

And I went back through years worth of me posting on social media. And I was like, God, what do I, what am I doing? Why am I so good at this? Right? It was like every single post started with I, here's how I, I was struggling. [00:38:00] I did this. And it was like, oh, maybe this has some meaning to it, right?

Is this how I did it? And then I spent months just pushing out content, seeing if I could do the same thing. It eventually grew to people being like, wait, you're really good at telling your story. Can you help me tell my story? Can you help me find my story? What's my brand story? How do I create a brand story?

And then I was like I'm gonna go into storytelling. 'cause that's what I'm really good at. And again, I, I practice every single day. The thing that was so helpful for me, well, actually two things. Do you remember I messaged you and I was like, Mackenzie, I, can't write my story.

I keep losing it. It's not there. But I can write other people's, like I could see my friends and my clients would come to me and I'm like, I can hear Mackenzie's voice and how she would shape this, but I couldn't do it for me. Do you remember what you said? No, what did I say? You were like, [00:39:00] it's because you're too emotionally connected to it.

Oh, mm-hmm. And that like, I'm so attached right now. Mm-hmm. So I love that because it helped me take a step back and be like, oh yeah, why am I doing this again? And it doesn't have to be this massive thing. And then when you gave me permission to share about my story in smaller chunks, like the one point, and then you deliver it through your story and you can say, I, it doesn't always have to be you and what you are going, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, oh, oh yeah, everyone can do this. Even me, you know? Mm-hmm. I have another question for you. So speaking of that, my stories are so big and I can't fit it into bite-sized frameworks. I see people say things, especially in the coaching and the spiritual, where it's like, you're gonna experience freedom and self care and that, and I'm like, that's up here.

What's your advice on chunking it down? This is an amazing question because I just wrote a piece of [00:40:00] content on it the other day, so it's very top of mind. I just worked with a nervous system healing coach for women who've been through trauma, right?

It's very, very intense work. And she was really struggling with her big story 'cause she was like, I help women rewrite the story of their life. But I have no idea what that means to people who were on the outside. She was like, I've gotten, she, gosh, in seven years, she said she's worked with hundreds of clients.

But then, you know, we get to a point where we're so good at what we do that we lose, not sight of what we do, but we lose like the, the everyday talk. 'cause we're so in it, like the coach speak as they say. And I was like, okay, well, if I was a client, take me through the process.

What do you do with me? Is there an intake form? What questions would you ask me? And, you [00:41:00] know, this is something a lot of, not, not a lot of people are willing to do is sit down and walk themselves through the process. Because we are so in it, we are so rushing every single day. We really have, we have 20 minutes to write content.

No one's sitting down and writing out our entire framework . Or looking and reflecting on it that often. So I said let's sit down, let's write out these frameworks. And it turned out that she had an entire three part framework that she walks every single client through. And she was like, oh my God, I don't even, I didn't even realize I did this.

And so when you have this big transformation, what are the steps that you're taking your audience through to get to that end goal? Because a call to action about I help you achieve freedom is amazing. And, and like I said, I said this in my piece of content the other day. I don't want you to stop saying that you give people life of freedom or you help them transform their life.

'cause in your mind, [00:42:00] that's what you do. But if you are selling a business and you're growing clients, at the end of the day, it has to be more than that. Where's the connection? And so that comes in with intricate stories about your life, your clients' lives, things that you have walked your clients through value or whatever, right?

And so, for example, one of her things that she brought up within this framework is a lot of my clients deal with triggers. They feel triggered and all of a sudden they can't move they're about to go into a panic attack. And she said something that she does with her clients is get them to feel into their body.

Where is this trigger coming from? Where is it? Where do you feel uncomfortable in your body? Is it your arms? Is it your legs? Is your head? Where's it coming from to notice it? And I was like. Why don't you talk about this like, right, because if you just talked about, you know, I had a client come to me the other day who was having a moment of anxiety through a trigger and we walked her through what she was feeling in her body and she was able to [00:43:00] talk herself out of an anxiety attack that is so much more obtainable than I change your life, I help you rewrite your story.

Right? So those little, little, little tiny stories, they matter and they add up because I mean, my whole thing is storytelling. I help people tell their stories, but every single client comes to me for a different reason because I'm so not all over the place, but I help people with so many different things.

And I'm able to talk about that through client stories or through my own stories or through education. 'cause there's so many different touch points you can have with your audience. This, oh God. And I'm thinking just, I just have so many ideas. every time I talk to you and connect with you, I'm like, oh yeah, I could talk about this and this and this and this.

And I think the part of the genius is, I think stories are how we carried on language and how we evolve, mm-hmm. And so to be [00:44:00] able to do that in a vivid way, in a snapshot, which is what you're teaching through micro stories, basically, that either move people to feel something and connect with you or to see you as a leader or to buy and invest in themselves.

And I remember one of the things that I came to you about that just blew my mind was I never made myself the authority. Yeah. And I was like, I can't say that I help people heal. 'cause they heal themselves and I'm just empowering them. And you talk about this specific thing that you add in your content called the Bridge.

Can you describe about that? Because I was like, this is a life changing. Okay. So a lot of people talk about the bridge but it's this thing you envision, right? It's like a bridge of how does your content connect to your message, to your clients, to the thing you do, right? And a lot of people envision and which is fine and all, but at the end of the day, I'm writing a piece of content in 20 minutes, help me make it faster, help me make it better.

And so I created one sentence [00:45:00] after your hook, it is always going to be a place of authority. So even if I am building trust, I'm connecting, um, or again, I'm wanting to be seen as a leader to grow my business or whatnot. The bridge is getting that point across. It is not allowing anyone to just scroll past your content because now there's a connection point.

You have this incredible piece of content. Where do you come in? Where are you in this piece of content? Why do I care about you? And so my bridge, like I said, is right after the hook. But an example ? This is one of the things that I've learned after implementing feeling through my body when I'm having an anxiety attack, right?

Or this is one of the most important lessons my client walked away with when she was having these panic attacks. Or let me explain how I'm able to support my clients. It's just [00:46:00] something, it's so little, but it's one of the biggest things I see. And I've audited like 500 pieces of content in the last year.

And it, it just, it's just so little. Just put it in there, please, so that I get to know you. And again, it's that community. your people wanna know who you are, you have to give them that. That reason though, otherwise, the reading, they're scrolling. The world is so busy and we see hundreds if not thousands of pieces of content a week, be the person somebody remembers, right?

And I feel like even if you're nervous about writing your story out online, or if you just, you're not really comfortable with telling pieces of your life yet, even doing something as basic as an educational piece of content. I've used this example before, like, here's how to make a fantastic peanut butter jelly sandwich.

This secret ingredient is the one [00:47:00] way I get my kids to eat their peanut butter jelly sandwiches every single weekend. It's so basic, but it's like, oh. There's a little bit of you in that. I wanna know a little bit more because now I'm interested in who this person is and why is your method better?

And who are you? And I think that interest can really grow your community in not just a way of thanks for the tip. Great content. Like it's actual like meaning, right? Because you're getting to know someone on the other side of the screen without having to pour your freaking heart out or be super vulnerable in every single post, right?

It's just something so little. When you finally articulated it to me, I was like. I can say that all the time. Here's how I help this person do this. This is how I thought about it. This is what I did. And I was like, why wouldn't I tell? I was there holding the space for them and walking them through my process.

It's not exactly, it's co-creation. I [00:48:00] get to have that and I was like, oh, the authority means it's mine. People who feel and resonant with me can choose me because I am confident in myself. And I say that by saying, here's how I did that. Exactly. Yeah. And I was like, damn, Mackenzie, this is fire.

Okay. Thank you so much. So I have, um, another question for you, because I know this is so your genius, but I know that you talk about your three layers deep method. Mm-hmm. Can you tell me what that is? Because when I first saw that, I was like, shut the front door. This is brilliant. When you are storytelling, a lot of people.

I wouldn't say a lot of people, I would say a lot of other storytelling. I don't wanna do quotes on the outside experts talk about it in a way of like,

it's just you talking about yourself or transformation or journey you've been [00:49:00] on. And the way I do storytelling and what this three layers deep is, it's really, really taking control of the piece of content, right? So we're transferring educational content that anybody can say on the internet into your genius.

And I think that's something that, and I can even go back to the, okay, so let me break down the three layers deep before we go into it.

First step is how to basic level educational content. The second step is how I, so it's just that little bit of like, okay, now there's a difference in what I'm reading. And then a third layer is I like just get rid of the how. Just get, go right into, I was able to do X, Y, Z. And I think for a lot [00:50:00] of people it's gotten them past that story because they think that storytelling content is, I need to be super vulnerable and tell all my traumatic shit out on the internet and I don't wanna do that.

So I can't do storytelling content. So with the three layers deep, let's take educational content and let's just put you in the driver's seat. So people see you as the person they wanna go to when they're ready for a transformation. And like you said, it builds your confidence and it builds confidence in your audience.

If you are confident that you are talking about what you're talking about and you're building your authority, your audience sees you as confident too. There's no reason for them to put doubt in you if you are just showing up as the confident person you are. So there's a bunch of examples.

Let me pop up my Threads right now. Yes. Not because this is my [00:51:00] pinned thread on my thing. How to set boundaries. That's, that's layer one, right? How I set boundaries, layer two, layer three. I refuse to set boundaries because I thought I'd hurt people if I did, when in reality I only ended up hurting myself.

It is so simple to just take something that would be seen as normal level educational content, basic shit we've heard a million times, and frame it in a way that no one else has heard because this is your story. And let's make it simple, right? A lot of people say can I do this for any niche?

And I have another example, how to start making sourdough. How I started making sourdough. I started making sourdough six months ago. And these are some of my favorite recipes I've ever used with my starter. Plus how I save money every week on food. It's so simple to just be like, and here's the thing, educational content serves a purpose for visibility.

Say we're talking on TikTok, [00:52:00] what video is gonna do better? In terms of views, how to make a sourdough starter or I started making my sourdough starter six months ago and blah, blah, blah. Probably the how to make sourdough starter. But am I connecting? I'm probably going to the comment section.

I'm gonna read a couple of comments 'cause there's nothing that's making me stay. But I don't know you. And that's the thing, I think with a lot of buyers in general, we're missing a lot of that personal touch. A lot of us want to just know that we can trust you and we can trust this person.

It's not even that we have to see you as an authority, but we just wanna know that you know something more than we do. That's it. You don't have to be the expert sourdough maker. I just have to know that you've made a sourdough starter and now you're saving money on food.

Cool, now I'm in the comments. Now I'm going to her feed. Now I'm watching her do a shit ton of random sourdough videos. I'm gonna go see how much her sourdough starter [00:53:00] costs. Right. 'cause it's just more intimate. Yes. Well, and I was thinking when I first came across that pinned thread that you wrote, I was like, this is such a brilliant mental exercise.

Because you can start at that first level and say how to, and then you can be like, how I, and I'm like, okay, yep, this is, and then when you get into the third level, this is how connections are made because I'm visualizing you. Mm-hmm. And you are painting a picture in my mind. And because I can see that I feel close to you and I feel like I can trust you.

And I'm like, you could do that in the smallest parts of your work with people. You can go into one thing or even your own story, which is the thing that I wanted to come to you with, because I was like, my story is so big. And you were like, yeah, we can just make, just chunk it down a little and then just share in the, and I'm like, and then it's my voice.

I never lost my voice with you, which is like a miracle, you know? Because you gave me the skills. So my [00:54:00] um. Um, my last question for you is, I have two, I always have one that I always ask, but this one is how can people work with you? What are the offers that you have? My membership I think that's a great place to start.

Uh, newbies start there. There's a upgraded membership version as well, which you can go into a Facebook group to get support, uh, one-on-one and ask me questions there. I have my ebook, sell your story. I'm gonna be coming out with another probably ebook soon, turned workshop. I wanna teach a class, like I wanna sit down with people every single week.

I wanna have them turn in homework, so like, that's something you can look forward to. But, I mean, there's so many simple ways. And I always say, read my content. Hey, if you can't afford anything, and literally I'm plugging all my free content and like you're like, make people pay you. And I'm like, no, go read my free content.

Which is amazing. There's so many things you would have to be dedicated, [00:55:00] read all my free content. But like, there's so many simple ways to work with me. And you have one-on-one, by the way, which was my jam. And I love the way that you structured it too, because it was a month intensive and I just, oh, you gave me time to come to you with my questions and then I could integrate and then I could play for a week, and then I could come to my stumbling blocks and you're like, great, let's work through that.

And then I could integrate and play. And I was like, this is actually so brilliant because it lets me try and play and fail and try and play and tweak, you know? Yeah. Outside of that too. I was gonna say, Mackenzie works with so many different types of people. So if you look through her content, she speaks to boudoir photographers and coaches and real estate people.

Mm-hmm. And like all these things. So you can actually start thinking about what you have and what you offer and how you can play with her framework. So, oh, you're, you're brilliant. I just love you so much, obviously. But my, my last question for you that I ask everyone, um, actually, [00:56:00] is it McKenzie Heflin on Thread's, Instagram and TikTok?

Yep. They're all the same. Okay, great. And I'll link that, but my last question for you is, what is alive in your heart today? Oh, I love that question. I think the first thing that pops up is I am so happy with the work that I'm doing that I get to put a lot of energy into my daughter. I'm so happy with the fact that I'm helping so many people that I don't have to get upset when I don't have time to write an Instagram post or like a TikTok, right?

That's alive in my heart today. The fact that I get to help all these people and still be there for my daughter and like be a present mom because I wasn't a present mom when I first had her. And it was very much something it was, gonna break. And so yeah. I love that. [00:57:00] Oh, thank you for that.

It's so good. And do you remember when we were talking, I'm just taking us on a tangent, but when you were telling me about your favorite class in school and stuff, and it was like you've always had inklings, can you share a little bit about that? I have always loved English.

I love writing so much and I really struggled with it in college, but I've always wanted to write a book. I was that girl, do you know what Wattpad is? This was oh my gosh, you don't? No. Okay. When I was 13, it was an app where people could create, this is so random. Um, books about One Direction.

Okay. What, what were these called? Fandom Fan something. Oh, fanfic. Fanfic. And I attempted to write one. I was 12. I was like, I'm gonna write a book. Right? I love and I think, with the way [00:58:00] that our world is going and AI and ChatGPT and I think I just wanna be someone that people can go to, to still have that personal touch.

And I want to continue to be better at writing so I can be better for other people. And you know, I always say if you don't know how to do something, ask for help. When I was in my, second English class, I was the only student I got a hundred percent in that class. And I was the only student that had ever gone to any of the after class tutors where the professor could look over your writing before you submitted it.

And she gave me so much feedback and I wrote better. And I literally aced that class and no one else showed up. And I was like, just show up. Just be better. I remember, and this is so random, but I remember writing a paper, it was about Godzilla. Freshman year of college and I had wrote the [00:59:00] most feminine, intricate introduction and I thought it was so spicy and wordy and my teacher, he failed the paper because I was so into writing.

And yeah, that's just funny to me because I'm still so into writing, but now obviously I don't have anyone to tell me that I'm failing at it, but you can do so much. You can be better if you don't know, ask questions. And I think that's also a huge part of what I do. Every single week now with my membership, I say, Hey, submit your homework.

If you have questions in your homework, ask questions. I'll answer them. 'cause the only way you get better is by getting help, I think. Yes. Well, and people will ask you questions on Threads and you'll actually make content out of it to showcase how to work with it. And it's just like you eat, sleep and breathe this clarity and this simplicity and this impact.

And I just, I love your work because I love how much you care about people and how your heartbeats for amplifying their words and their messages and their [01:00:00] work. Mm-hmm. Like, it's in everything that you do. So you are a gift. If you feel called, please connect with Mackenzie. She's brilliant, truly. And you will learn so much and you will refine your voice in a way where you're, you're proud to hold it and to share it.

So Mackenzie, thank you for being with me today. I love you so much. Oh, thank you. This was amazing. I loved this. I love you. I love this conversation.